It’s really sad that an innocent man’s life was taken from him, especially when leaving behind a wife and children. But one must have a really low IQ to visit an Islamic country, in Africa no less, and try to convert Muslims (obviously radical Muslims) to Christianity.What was this man thinking?
People who are highly devout lose all sense of reason it seems. TGO
Refer to brief story below. Source: Associated Press
NOUAKCHOTT, Mauritania (AP) — A court in the west African country of Mauritania has sentenced a member of an al-Qaida cell to death for the 2009 slaying of an American teacher.
A North African branch of al-Qaida said it targeted 39-year-old Christopher Leggett because he allegedly was trying to convert Muslims to Christianity.
Leggett was fatally shot in the Mauritanian capital not far from a school he helped run. The Tennessee native, his wife and their four children had lived in Mauritania for more than six years.
The Mauritanian court announced Tuesday that the man found guilty of plotting Leggett’s murder would be executed. Two other men were sentenced to prison as accomplices to the crime.
Dear TGO,
How are you? I am so glad that you are willing to read the “Holy Bible.” I am just curious that if you are willing to read “Firm Evidence That Demands A Verdict” by Josh Mcdowell ! It is really not my business (what I really meant is that I do not care) that you believe Jesus Christ as the God or not.
However, your effort makes me to care about your salvation that you might be a good witness of Jesus Christ.
I believe that your IQ is above the average people (like me); therefore, you will probably be able to understand the book that I introduce to you. The only reason that you do not want to read it will only be you are scared of being convinced. I love science and philosophy too.
Hope you enjoy reading the book!
TGO, this promises to be fairly long because I want to address certain points that you made. Bear with me if you have the time.
Regarding my comment stating that the YEC v. OEC is irrelevant is because it was never written in a manner that was absolutely clear outside of the fact that God created everything. In the Old Testament, there are themes of numbers representing a large amount of time, but not defining an exact period of time (think back to the frequency of the periods of forty years, forty days, or, even in the New Testament, where Jesus said that we should forgive another seventy times seven times). The point that I am making is that the specifics of a particular portion where the specifics of the story were never made absolutely clear are not areas that need to be focused as strongly as to compel debate or dissension. The main point to take away from the creation account is that God created everything.
As for the historicity of the Bible, you are quite in error. The validity of the historical stories of the Bible are confirmed through archaeology and it is treasured as a key element in understanding events that occurred in that region. William Mitchell Ramsay first comes to mind. He was a prolific author and performed extensive archaeological research pertaining to Paul and Luke’s journeys together and the early church. His scholarly conclusion was that Luke was a historian of top caliber, but this is just one part of generations of historians that have validated the events and locations found in the Old and New Testaments. The problem that is being disputed is the problem of the divine when one’s worldview precludes it as a possibility. If there is a God, He can certainly make animals speak, bring stone idols to their knees, resurrect people, make a young woman pregnant with sexual intercourse being involved, etc. If you remove the “God-factor” from the equation, then it certainly is impossible for these events to take place. Finally, to this point, you assess too quickly that only complete ignorance can sustain belief in the stories of the Bible, which is untrue. Many brilliant minds believe and have believed throughout time (John Polkinghorne, Soren Kierkegaard, and Ravi Zacharias are three that immediately come to mind). Beyond this, you cannot deny that I have, up to now, remained logically balanced and fair in everything that I have written; this stems from intense studies in philosophy and rhetoric. Also, I invite you to investigate my blog, which you can access by clicking my name. If you find any logical errors, feel free to explain what they are and why.
I am now reaching the end of what I wanted to address. Thanks for staying with me. You comment that the world’s religions are regional, which is also to say that they are inherited beliefs. For the most part, you are true. Most of the various mythologies of the world (Shintoism, Hinduism, Bahá’í, Norse, Greek, and whatnot) are strictly cultural beliefs. Consider Hinduism, Islam, or Judaism: straying from the faiths are just as much acts of betraying their home as they are betraying their gods. Christianity, that is, the church of Christ or the body of believers, is the only faith that is without a region, for submitting to Christ is the act of turning away from our homes and lives to pursue Him alone. Our church is invisible and universal, to embody those who have submitted to Christ alone. We are from Asia, the Americas, Europe, and everywhere else across the planet. Our culture is to be obedience and our lives are perpetual pilgrimages to our home, which is not of this world; for, as Paul wrote, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile…for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” There are undoubtedly those, though, who come from Christian families that associate themselves with Christ, but have never submitted. When asked what religion they are, they say “Catholic” or “Presbyterian” or “Baptist,” but they are truly hedonists. They are cultural Christians and not of the Spirit which seals the salvation of the true believer.
While there is more I want to discuss, I will leave on the note of evidence and “blind faith.” Philosophically speaking, we can argue effectively that God is the only necessary Being that exists (“necessary” being that everything else demands that He, first, exists). Aquinas, using an Aristotelian argument, explains in his classic work, Summa Contra Gentiles, that the universe requires a first mover who is first unmoved by another. The rational being that if the universe is the product of an infinite regression of intermediate movers who move others and are moved by others, no mover would be first moved and nothing would be moved at all. Later, in the same book – Book 1-, he argues against the flaw of reason being the only way to gain knowledge of God. He explains that this knowledge could be obtained by way of a lifetime of diligent inquiry, but there are issues through the problems of physical impairments, temporal needs, and youthful indolence. Beyond this, our natural capacity to combine truth and error and accept error as the truth because it was coupled together would forever keep us in the darkness of ignorance, but, by God’s grace, we were given faith so that [all] may partake in the knowledge of God. Kierkegaard, the eloquent, Danish philosopher, focused on a different subject, though, that is the subject of faith and reason with respect to Jesus. Human reason, he argues, is inadequate at developing faith or accepting Christ as the Savior Lord because it stands in contrast to reason due to the numerous paradoxes that must be accepted, which would otherwise be absurd; this, he writes, is our belief: belief “by virtue of the absurd.” You will either belief or not, but do not be so foolish as to argue that, by reason, you may believe. The main tenets of the Christian faith defy human reason and this was God’s great joy to do.
I hope you stayed with me during this and I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.
Gloria in Excelsis Deo.
Without sexual intercourse, I mean*
I haven’t responded to your last commentary as I was out of town for a few days and have been very busy. Anyway, we can continue this back and forth ‘til the end of time and neither one of us is going to convince the other of the validity of our respective position. What I’ve got going for me is that your beliefs are based on faith, as there is no way that you can prove the existence of God, heaven, hell, an afterlife and/or any of the other claims made in the Bible (many of which are quite wild to say the least). And since you’re the one believing these things, the burden of proof is on you to prove them and not on me to disprove them. For example, I certainly cannot disprove the existence of elves (nor do I need to). If anyone asserts that elves exist, then that individual must prove their existence as he/she would be the one making the claim. Anyway, I would like to make a few points regarding your commentary…
I completely disagree with your statements in the first paragraph. While I’m quite aware that there are countless repetitions made in the Bible with regard to time frames, we’re talking about a book (collection of books) that is supposedly the Word of God.
A book that is the Word of God, a perfect being, must by necessity be perfect. It cannot contain even one contradiction or one incorrect statement, because if it does, what’s to say that every other assertion made in its pages isn’t also incorrect. In other words, once man begins to pick and choose those portions of the Bible which are relevant, irrelevant, absolute truth or anecdote, then this book ceases to be “holy.” Either the Bible is the Word of God or it isn’t. Either all of its content is factual or it isn’t. If all of it isn’t factual, then as far as I’m concerned (and logic supports this position) one can correctly state that all of its content is questionable – and then the entire veracity of its claims is nothing but foolishness.
Therefore, I’m not going to simply disregard all of these time frames and just conveniently ignore them because they make no sense. Either God created the world and everything in it in six (6) days or he didn’t. During the Flood, either it rained for forty (40) days and nights or it didn’t. Either this rain covered all of the mountains on Earth or it didn’t. Either Noah was five hundred (500) years old when he had three sons (in one year) or he wasn’t. By the way, did he cheat on his wife, or did women have a shorter gestation period in those days? Either Noah was six hundred (600) years old when the Flood came or he wasn’t. Either he died when he was nine hundred fifty (950) years old or he didn’t. This is important, because we are all supposedly his sons and daughters.
There are other notables in the Bible with excellent genes as well: Methuselah lived 969 years, Jared lived 962 years, Cainan lived 910 years, Seth lived 912 years, Enos lived 905 years, Lamech lived 777 years, etc. Very impressive, particularly since in 2011 our average life span (in civilized countries) is approximately 75-80 years!!!
The validity of the historical stories of the Bible is NOT confirmed through archaeology; nothing could be further from the truth! William Mitchell Ramsay was a Christian apologist; his entire focus was to defend his faith against all objections, regardless of the evidence. Look, the four Gospels couldn’t even agree as to who first witnessed the supposed Resurrection of Jesus, arguably the single most important event in all of Christianity. In Mathew it states it was Mary Magdalene and the other Mary; Mark and John state it was Mary Magdalene, and Luke says it was Cleopas and another. The Bible can’t even get this right!
I also have performed extensive studies in philosophy as well as history and several of the sciences. And I approached all with an open mind. I did not first make my conclusion, and then fit the “facts” to that conclusion. Science doesn’t work that way. I could also name countless brilliant men throughout history who are non-believers, and most of them have solid arguments to justify their position. Many of these are men of science, who analyze, re-analyze and must have a very sound basis for making conclusions before they are put to the test by the rest of the scientific community. We’re talking science here, not mere philosophy or metaphysics. So what’s your point?
Again, all religions are demographic. The only important thing of note here is that Christianity has been the most successful of all faiths in sending missionaries throughout the world to spread its faith. This is why Christianity is prevalent in fairly large numbers throughout all continents; not much else to say about this.
St. Thomas Aquinas’ philosophy was not only extremely rudimentary, but also flawed. Stating that God must be the “first mover” proves nothing. In reality, Aquinas cannot prove the existence of God using this argument, as the question could simply be asked: Who created God, and this can go on indefinitely. Philosophers call this infinite regression. Although I must admit, it is a very clever position which could lead to interesting dialogue. Nevertheless, there was no way for him (Aquinas) to prove that God was the first-mover. Therefore the bottom line is that the argument fails to prove anything. It is simply making an assertion and working backwards from there.
All of the knowledge we have, all of it has been the result of scientific inquiry and the use of human reason and the scientific method. There are endless claims made by endless faiths throughout the world; Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Mormonism, Santeria, Scientology, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc, etc…. The list is endless. They each have their particular beliefs; and they each believe that their beliefs belong to the one true faith; theirs. Yet there are demonstrable facts, whether in cosmology, physics, anthropology, biology, modern medicine, etc. and they are what they are. We basically know what causes rain, lightning, earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis and cyclones. We also know these were not caused by gods. We know how mountains, oceans, rivers and streams were created and also know these were not merely made in a few days. We know how the universe evolved; the formation of all the elements found in our universe, as well as the stars, planets, solar systems and galaxies… We have landed man on the moon, sent probes to Mars, and studied the far reaches of our galaxy and beyond. And here on Earth, we know how the human body functions. Faith did not reveal these things. The authors of the Bible did not reveal these things. These barbaric nomads were completely clueless to these and countless other scientific facts and discoveries. Theirs was a very small, limited world, and their knowledge of it was even more limited yet.
I too, hope you’ve stayed with me this long…
I leave you with a quotation from Voltaire; sarcastic but ever so right: “All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one is born with knowledge of God.”
There is more evidence to authenticate the Bible than logical evidence for your contradictory humanistic ideologies. You contradicted yourself in your own statements. You said this man was innocent. But, the humanist by definition has no moral constant. The humanist does what is right in his own eyes. Your very statement elevated the value of the wife and children above that of the devoted Christian man and devoted Muslim. You made a determination that both the Christian and the Muslim had low IQs. A person’s IQ by very definition has nothing to do with level of devotion or worldview. You discredited these who are devoted. But, you are just as devoted to your worldview. So, the logic of your statements is completely incoherent. You show the attitude that you are superior because of your dogma. In this respect you are no different from a radical Muslim who sees himself as superior.
You apparently haven’t read the Bible. If you had, there is no possible way you could say that there is evidence to authenticate it. A book with stories of the universe being created in 6 days, with trillions of massive stars being placed up in the sky by the hand of God; stories of talking animals; people living to be several hundred years old; a man made from the dust on the ground; a woman made from a man’s rib; rains that cover the highest mountains on the planet; two of every animal species on Earth gathered into a wooden arc by Noah and his family (Noah was said to be 600 years old at the time); virgin births; resurrections; people rising from the dead… And this is just a small sampling of the absurdities contained in this so-called “holy book.” Only a child could believe such nonsense, but certainly not an adult with even an average IQ.
One does not need religion to be moral. Humanists throughout history have lived decent, honest, lives without hurting a single soul. This is more that can be said for the countless devotees of religions who have slaughtered people in the name of God. The Crusades, the Inquisitions, 911, suicide bombers, pedophile priests, the list is endless. Please, don’t even insinuate that people need religion to be moral; nothing could be further from the truth.
My worldview was derived from observation, the study of science, and the use of reason and common sense. It did not come as a result of being indoctrinated into a belief system founded in myths and fairy tales. Religions are demographic, pure and simple. One is no more true than any other. An individual born in Tel Aviv is more likely to be Jewish than one born in Nicaragua. A Mexican is more likely to be Catholic than someone born in Nepal. A native of India is more likely to be Hindu than a Canadian. One born in Iran is more likely to be Muslim than one born in Japan, etc. etc. etc.
I am superior to no one and definitely not dogmatic. If you can show me evidence for the existence of God, any God, I will certainly accept it. But I need evidence; for I certainly don’t “operate” on blind faith, and definitely don’t believe the words written in the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon or any other volume written by mortal men. Remember, adherents of religions, and there are many religions, all believe that theirs is the one true faith. Who’s right? Certainly they cannot all be right, as all religions believe in different ideologies; different dogmas; different rituals; observe different holidays; pray to different gods; worship in different places, etc. If one is right all others are wrong. Everyone who is a believer is an atheist to all other faiths but their own. I just go one faith further and believe all religions are false.
In closing, again I repeat, I am superior to no one and never considered myself so, But, I am different than a radical Muslim. I don’t kill people.
YEC and OEC are areas that are ultimately irrelevant in the Scripture. They are of no real concern. Next, the writers who wrote the Scripture were certainly not barbarians; instead, they were Jewish leaders and prophets. More than this, though, our trust is certainly not in the hands of the writers of the Scripture, but the Author. It is heavy and when the “God-factor” is removed from possibility, the aforementioned themes would certainly seem impossible.
My “conversion” or, rather, submission, happened after years of wasting my life away.
How do you explain that the supposed Son of God, Jesus Christ, never wrote a single word for mankind’s benefit. I “know,” he supposedly wrote on sand, but really, what good is that?
It would seem to me that if God himself sent his only begotten son to save mankind, that it would be him that would have authored the Bible; not a bunch of nomads wandering aimlessly through the dessert.
The whole story belongs in a children’s book of fairy tales.
And by the way, if God authored the Bible as you and Christians claim, how in the world can you, a mere mortal, pick and choose those parts of the “holy book” that you deem important and those that you dismiss. I would think that if I truly believed in the Almighty, a God who not only designed but created the entire universe, one who is responsible for every single word in the Bible, I wouldn’t dare feel that parts of it are “irrelevant.” But that’s just me…
It isn’t about losing sense. We [Christians] are told to present the Gospel to the entire world. Mortal danger does not make a difference because we are not attached to this life.
Oh, I forgot, for you Christians this is just a temporary existence, therefore this life is basically meaningless. It’s the hereafter that you’re all interested in. Wow, I must say, you people sure put a great deal of trust in the hands of the ignorant barbarians who made up all the silly superstitious nonsense written in the Bible. I mean really… People living to be hundreds of years old, the 6-day Creation, Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, talking animals, Noah’s Ark, the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection. That’s a lot of really, really heavy stuff. Hope it all comes through for you. If not, you basically wasted your life away…